Wendy- So, I’m Wendy
W- And, I was in the sex trade for a decade. And from 15 to 25, on and off. And I’m now an advocate and safe sex educator, and sex worker advocate—wait; I already said that [giggles]—and harm reduction worker. And hopefully, one day I’ll be a nurse and then a lawyer
W-…and I’d like to top it all off by being in politics—
V- That’s amazing!
W - and then dying at 75 from a heroin overdose, cause that sounds peaceful.
V- So, when you’re introducing yourself, and you’re really kind of highlighting how your sex work experience kinda relates to, or, interacts with all of your aspirations.
W - So, sex work, for me, um…I got into advocacy, more or less, as a healing mechanism
V- Yup [nodding]
W - for how I was treated in the sex work. So, it wasn’t actually the sex work per say that I felt really bad about, even though it’s what people were always trying to talk me into. I felt really bad about that that’s what they were trying to talk me into; that they were trying to make me feel bad.
V- Yes [nodding]
W - And I wanted to address some of the underlying issues, cause it’s not…I really hated being a child sex worker as a teen and being labeled as this “victim”. And, you know, my teachers and all of that would say: Wendy, you’ve got to get out of it; it’s dangerous”…blah, blah, blah. And, what they didn’t realize was that was the reason why I was able to go to school and I was able to put a roof over my head. And, unless they wanted to take that on themselves, they really had no business..
V- Totally! [nodding]
W - And, later on, I ended up getting welfare when I was 15, which was the youngest person in
V- Which is pretty fuckin bad.
W - And it wasn’t a lot of money either, so I had to work on the side to make ends meet. And I wanted to do stuff my friends were doing. I went to a really rich high school and I wanted to do stuff that they were doing…Like my school would to on trips to
V- Wow!
W - I spent the money on going to the semiformal, cause I really wanted to go to the semiformal, cause all my girlfriends were going, and I couldn’t afford to chip in on the limo, or buy a dress. So, that’s what I spent my money on, which was kinda lame…
V- So, you’re totally, you’re totally saying then that; yeah, there’s some things that, when you started doing advocacy and stuff, that you kinda wanted to heal from and become more empowered in, but you’re not allowing people to put the same spin on it as what you’re putting on it. Like, in terms of—you, you’re saying that you took power into your own hands, pretty much.
W - Yeah, well I think when people were really trying to take power away from me…this is a way for me to take power back for myself and to heal, um, and, as well as to finally be able to stand up for myself. Because, as a teen, I mean, it’s very hard to stand up for yourself. You don’t have rights. You don’t have any legal rights. You’re looked upon as a victim, and when you do speak up, you’re looked upon as a “sexually exploited youth”. You don’t know…Um, I mean, yes, I do agree that children shouldn’t work, because they are exploited. You don’t know how to deal with relationships. You don’t know enough about sex, um, how to, how to separate sex from work, um…
V- But you’re saying that it’s being used to silence though.
W - Yeah, it’s used to whitewash the problem. The one thing that drives me crazy…There’s this poster, and it’s on all of the garbage cans in 
, those are both the ages when kids from the Children’s Aid Society get aged out.
V- Interesting! [sarcastic/mock surprise]
W - Now—that was back before Harris—so, I’d like to do…I spoke to a researcher about it; I really want to do research on it now, after Harris hears, after the cutbacks, um, to see if it has increased, because I bet you any money it has increased. And, as well, now we have these new “welfare rules” that require kids to have a certain amount of [school] attendance, or they get kicked out and cut off welfare if they don’t have perfect attendance. If they don’t have a certain grade, which isn’t even just a pass; they have to get at least 65% [grade average], at least.
V- Yes, you’re setting youth up for failure.
W - Yeah, we’re going to see more youth out there. Instead of dealing with the problem, we’re just..we’re not addressing those issues, we’re addressing the outcome; after the fact. We’re not addressing what’s leading up to it, we’re addressing it after the fact. And it’s not the sex work that’s the issue, but it does become an issue, but it’s what leads up to that.
V- I was going to say—correct me if I’m wrong, cause I don’t want to put words over yours—but one thing that really pisses me off—cause I didn’t start sex work as young, but I still started when I was 17, just before I turned 18—and it’s like; the concern about child sex workers, though well intentioned on some people’s parts, it actually really part of a set of systemic oppressions. It’s like, people don’t mind somebody working at McDonalds flipping burgers, serving their ass, being underpaid, but it’s when you attach the sexual [label] to it. Like, I totally agree with all of your analysis about how we need to be there for youth, and have other options there, and the consequences, because youth are most often doing the most marginalized forms of sex work. Like, I get all that, but, it’s like, when you attach it all to capitalism and morality, you realize that all of this concern about “child sex workers” isn’t really about all of that good intention. It’s, there’s a lot of stuff about capitalism, and what we’d like to do with our children instead…Like, there’s a reason why kids run away from home. There’s a reason why kids are where they are, and, in many ways, I still think that it’s about resistance and their own survivorship, and I don’t think that people get that.
W - And, as well, when we’re looking at youth, or who we perceive as youth that work, say, in Thailand, where it’s like: “wow, she’s 14 years old and she’s working”. Well, at 12 years old she can get married. But, we still call it child sex slavery, but they’re an adult in the eyes of that culture. They’re adults.
V- And also, we don’t mind buying clothing where there’s children working—like, we’re part of this large economy where we buy clothes from Taiwan, or, um, China, or whatever, and there’s child laborers, and we don’t get nearly as up in arms in society when we don’t attach the sexual to it. Well, I shouldn’t say “we”, but it’s that whole bandwagon….sensationalist media, “family values” bandwagon they can jump on.
W - Canada says they care so much about child prostitution, but the child exploitation unit is one of the most poorly funded units. Child welfare is one of the most under funded agencies.
V- And it is really oppressive.
W - If we took, if we decriminalized prostitution…if we took that fuckin money out of chasing adults who make an informed choice to get into the profession and are consenting to sexual acts. If we took the money out of arresting those people and put it towards child exploitation-
V- Like, in a meaningful way.
W - what a difference we could make in these children’s lives! What a difference. Like, if we took all those resources, and not just the ones on the communicating law; if we took it from the bawdy-house law, if we take it off the living off of the avails law. If we took that money away and put it into more enforcement measures to patrol internet sex predators, to do more outreach at schools…to talk to kids, to try to work with youth shelters, and try to work with these kids, we’d make such a difference-
V- That’s sooo not the mentality though.
W - but it’s being so overlooked. And what do we do with these kids; we throw them in Cassatta warrendale,
W - And Moberly House is the one that they send
V- There’s all kind of exploitation that goes on in those institutions.
W - And there’s no empowerment at all. We were just told that we were just victims and losers. There was no acknowledgement of: “wow, you really, you worked for a living. You found a way to survive. You, made your own money. Let’s talk about the skills you got out of that. You budgeted, you learned crisis intervention, you learned safety, you learned to talk to people.” But, there was none of that. It was all: “you’re a failure”.
V- And, and I was hoping to talk to you about that. Yes, like…what I was hoping…So often when research is being done, or media coverage, or whatever, it’s always about “what’s wrong with—from this very dominant, oppressive view of what’s wrong with sex workers. Even when you’re trying to intervene and provide services for people who are having a really hard time on the streets with addictions, or whatever, you can’t come from that place. I think you have to come from the place where you recognize the survivorship, and where you recognize the strengths, and where you can start to see the hypocrisy in society about how we keep sex workers down by not recognizing their strengths; by not recognizing their knowledge; by not recognizing that we have some real fuckin analysis that should be in university textbooks; that should be at the policy table. And that’s, you know, there’s strengths we have that people would consider so disgusting, or so…And, it’s like, if you only knew the shit that we know [laughs]….you know, and that’s the shit I want people to know. There’s a reason why…because of the fact that I think you’re so flippin amazing that I wanted to talk to you about, like, your ideas of the strengths that you have found inside you through your strengths; through your knowledge.
W - Awww, thanks.
V- So, I guess I’ll introduce myself a little…talk about myself a bit. So, I was, like, um, 17 when I first started escorting. I escorted for almost 6 years. I think I already told you that a while ago. I was on Ontario Works. I had a baby and he was about 10 months old when I turned my first trick. And, for, me, it was like; yeah, should I be in that position where I’m living off of 900 and some odd dollars—this was right around the Harris cuts.
W - Oh yeah [nodding]
V- And, it’s like: should I be in that position where that feels like one of few viable options for me if I want to make a decent living and stay at home with my son when he is a baby, and to not have to worry about: do I have to boy a loaf of bread, or should I use my last couple of dollars to take my son on the bus to a doctors appointment? So, so that’s not a really great space for people to be making decisions from in their life, but, no matter what, I still made that decision.
W - Yeah [nodding]
V- And there are lots of people who don’t make that decision, who are in a similar situation. And, so I had constrained choices, but, you know what; I still made an informed choice to get into the sex trade. And, it made a huge difference in my life; in my income; the way that I didn’t have to loose as much sleep at night—you know, where I felt more in control in my life. Not everybody has that experience; I’m just talking from my own. So, um, I don’t wanna write my whole life story in a nutshell, but I’ll just say a few things. I learned a lot of shit working in sex work, and I already brought a lot of stuff to the table beforehand, but I feel like I’m not the same person. Through my sex work—it has really shaped….When I’m doing social work now; when I’m caring about social justice; when I’m making human connections with people; that has been really affected by my experience in the sex trade—of being a sex worker…of going through a lot of shit, but having to pull up a lot of courage up, and a lot of backbone…to develop a whole way of seeing the world, I just would not have gotten if I hadn’t been in sex work.
W - Yup [nodding].
V- And something I’ve become more strong in, even since I’ve left the sex trade and even through I still had a lot of that in me in the trade, is to do that: “fuck you; I am who I am, and I’m proud of who I am. And I can make a separation between your screwed up value system an the way I see myself in the world.” So, I’ve learned a lot from that, and that’s become my passion for women’s issues, for anti-poverty struggles, and for sex workers rights. To really have seen the world from that other lens, and to know that, um…I think that I’ve learned a lot from the business, and I think that I learned a whole repertoire of being a professional in my own right, and I just think that that’s so undervalued. So, I guess that’s all I’ll say in my own right.
W - Well, I guess I learned a lot of interpersonal knowledge...Especially since I came from a really violent home, I really didn’t have a lot of social skills about how to relate to people. And being a sex worker, and meet guys for one hour at a time…different personalities, different attitudes, and different views on things-opinions, helped me to be able to communicate and be able to get along with a wide range of people, and I probably wouldn’t have learned those skills outside of the trade. As I was exposed to it at an early age, that really helped. I also think that I learned, um…I had a lot of body issues growing up, especially from going through sexual abuse, and all that, I thought it was really gross and really ugly…
V- Yup [nodding]
W - I really learned that all of those conceptions that I had that a woman had to look a certain way, were all made up by the media and, um, society…because, when I would actually see these to these men, even later on when I had my baby and I was in my stretch mark glory, they loved my body. That was a really something that really blew me away; one of those moments where…it was one of those really powerful moments where I felt really beautiful, and, and, not ugly, because I was able to make someone else feel really satisfied. So, I learned that it’s not really your looks that get you by; it’s how you treat people, and it’s how you present yourself to people. Guys just really want a naked woman.
V- I totally, um….So, in bringing that back to your strength then, being in sex work has really brought you back to a place where you’ve learned to be—and the stereotypes would say something else, right—but you are talking about how sex work actually made you feel more comfortable in your own skin as a person.
W - Yeah, if I can get naked in front of strangers, then I can do a whole bunch of things in front of strangers. I can do public speaking. I can do all sorts of things that I thought I couldn’t do. Especially when I started dancing, because then, you’re in front of an audience. If you get naked in front of an audience, then there’s not alot that you can’t do. That’s something pretty big for people to get over.
V- So, then you’re saying that your strength then is your confidence, and that’s a transferable skill then. Like, I just wanted to tease that out a bit more…like how that is a transferable skill in your life now.
W - Well, now I have a lot more confidence with meeting people…doing interviews, ah, working with people from all walks of life. The interpersonal skills I’ve gotten have really helped, especially as a social worker, I can have a better grasp of crisis intervention, cause I’ve actually had to deal with them. Umm, and communicating and getting along with people better, cause I’ve been exposed to so many of them, and I’ve had to deal with listening to their problems. And keeping my barriers up, and making sure that people don’t cross those barriers, is another one.
V- Yes! Yes! Boundaries…that you’ve learned some real skills around…. I love this. This is a huge skill that doesn’t get talked about enough. Like, you’re talking about: this is where I start and stop, and this is where you begin….and negotiating your safety; negotiating the terms of relationships, and relating to people from…I know what you mean; like, working across total difference. Like, hello, those are so many skills that people would love to have in their, in their daily lives. Like, that’s how you survive. That’s how you get really good at your work.
W - You see, I never used drugs or anything on the job, cuz I thought it was stupid and dangerous. And so, to be able to do the job with some of the ugliest people and some of the biggest assholes is just really about trying to find the beauty in each of those people. And now it’s easier for me to find that, because if you can have sex with some guy who smells, hasn’t used deodorant, and is a macho pig, and you can find something in him that can help you get through that… I think that’s something good; to be able to find the beauty in people.
V- Yes, sacredness [nodding/smiling].
W - And you’re finding beauty in people that other people wouldn’t find beautiful, especially when you’re working with disabled clients and stuff. And, it’s really cool to have a job where other people, all day—if you’re working at the DMV—are pissing people off, and you can go home and say: “wow, I made someone feel really good about themselves.” I didn’t have to, like, tell anyone “no”. I didn’t have to say “you’re not going to get this, and you’re not going to get that.” They’re going away getting exactly what they wanted, and feeling really good about it.
V- Yeah, sometimes the work is about keeping your ass safe. Sometimes it’s about…you can’t necessarily find that place, that sacred vulnerable place in everybody. Like, I’ll just speak for myself. Like, sometimes I just wanted to get in and out; there’s different levels of safety. But, what I’m hearing some say—and one thing one thing that I don’t think that a lot of people get—is that there’s vulnerability on our client’s part too, in many cases.
W - Yeah [nodding]
V- And, we just look at clients as penises. Well, I shouldn’t say “we”. I mean society. It’s like, it’s like hands-on therapy for frigs sakes. You know, like, to be able to keep your boundaries; to keep yourself safe; to be sexy; to meet desire, but there’s all these layers of nurturance. There’s all these layers of sitting in that vulnerable place with someone else who’s asking you to do some very intimate things that they might be self-conscious about. You know, like you said; they may be disabled, or older, or they’re going through something in their life. A lot of times they are not just looking to ejaculate. It’s like, I just know that when people ask me: “oh, it seems like you’ve been in social work a lot longer, and it’s like: I’ve already been in a hands-on form of social work. That’s there’s always elements to it that you were talking about.
W - I also learned about the importance of the human touch too. Sometimes it wasn’t just about the sex; sometimes it was about the holding. And that’s a transferable skill that I’ve used in social work, especially when I work with clients who are homeless, or who have been abused and have never had a good touch. Being able to recognize when people don’t have that good touch, and being able to offer a hug, or something, because human touch is just so important. And we take it so for granted, but for a person who hasn’t been hugged…for a person who hasn’t had anyone be gentle with them. And, I have had clients—I mean Johns—who, that’s all they really wanted, was a woman who really nurtures them. You know, I’ve had clients who were abused as children, who just wanted that normal therapeutic touch that isn’t abusive; that isn’t exploitive; that’s not looking for anything in return.
V- I totally identify with that too. Yeah.
W - So, that’s some of the stuff that I’ve learned in, in doing sex work, which is pretty cool. As well as, you know, learning how to budget my money; how to manage myself…How to present myself to the world—even writing out ads and stuff, you know. I’m trying to think of different things to say.
V- Very creative [nodding].
W - Yeah, mine [her ad] was: “You’ve seen me in your dreams. Now you can see her.”.
V- You could totally work in advertising with that.
W - Yeah, that was a good one [smirks].
K & V laugh
V- That’s amazing! That’s amazing!
W - And also, I like the fact that I have control over my sexuality, which is transferred, not into my professional life, but more so in my personal life. Being al to draw boundaries with men, and being able to able to talk about sex, which, um, alot of people don’t actually do. I’m a lot more comfortable, cause, when I’m doing sex work, I’m very clear about what the boundaries are: “you can do this, this, this—this you can’t do—and if you cross the line, I’m gone and I’m calling my driver, and you can deal with the consequences—whatever they are”.
V- So, you’re talking about being able to negotiate yourself in the world in your sexu-
W - In my sexuality. Yeah, I’ve learned to expect more for myself. I expect more from guys. If they treat me like shit; if they talk down to me, um I’m outta there, cause I’ve spent so many years drawing those boundaries. So, if I wouldn’t let a client hit me, I won’t let a boyfriend fuckin hit me.
V- So, you’re totally, again, breaking stereotypes…cuz what would the stereotypes say?
W - Oh yeah, I’m going to get beat up. That’s so stupid. Why would I do that?
V- It would be that, it would be that women in sex work have no self-respect. Um, sure we may be struggling with self-esteem, like the next person, but I think we’ve had to learn to develop a thick skin, and to really dig deep to find who we are…And, like you said, to find ways to present yourself to the world, and to say: “this is what I’ll deal with, and this is how it’s going to go down”. That’s breaks the stereotype, because we are often portrayed as not knowing who we are.
W - Yeah [nodding].
V- And, and I know that there’s all kinds of diversity in the sex trade, but I think that there’s a lot of women like us out there, who are like: “I’ve really worked hard to figure out who I am, and how I want to relate to other people, and what kind of respect I expect for myself…I learned a lot of that in sex work—you know.
V- Definitely with my [sex worker] activism I drew a passion for women. Um, cause when I started seeing my colleagues being abused and mistreated, I developed a passion for working with women.
V- Yeah, totally!
W - And not end, cuz I know it will never really end, but to reduce, or legally end some of the oppressions that happen to sex workers, and women in general. And it’s really opened my eyes to, ah, how women as a whole are treated, because sex workers are generally the most marginalized women, and it give you a greater understanding about how women as a whole are treated. And, you can never get equality unless you deal with the most marginalized first….so
V- Yes! Like, you have a really keen analysis—right. So, there’s a lot of people who would like to simplify the issues and almost treat them as distinct., but we…Our analysis can never just be about sex work. Like, it’s about the whole operations of patriarchy…When you, when you become passionate about sex worker’s equality, or women’s equality, like, you can’t separate those issues, and so often they get separated. Like: “well, that’s just a prostitution issue. That’s not…”.
W - It intertwines with so many other things…with migrant—with, ah, immigrants …You know, how they are treated with the whole “trafficking of women”.
V- Racism.
W - Yeah, which is—again—cuz, you know, with the trafficking of women they don’t separate women from children, but they separate men from boys.
V- And, and it really not about changing….it, it just makes people’s sense of self-determination worse…the trafficking laws and the ways that they deal with…And they treat people as trafficked, who may not be there in the best of circumstances, but who made a choice, and they treat them like children.
W - Yeah, if me and you crossed the border and decided to do sex work somewhere else in the States, we would be considered trafficked women, even though we left on our own accord and nobody brought us there…
V- mmmhmm [nodding]
W- and that’s the most ridiculous part. And the fact that
V- But it’s used to really keep sex workers down and silenced….
W- And, in a way, to impose more racist measures against, um immigrants. We used the trafficking legislation to take away the stripper law, for example.
V- Yeah [nodding].
W - So, now women who come from countries who may not have had an opportunity to get an education; to get into any of the other, um, classes that would help you to get into Canada, because, you know, we’re looking for skilled laborers and we have a real points system…
V- White upper-middle class.
W - Yeah. Where women from many countries are unable to get those skills, sex work is one of their only viable ways to get into this country, if they don’t have the money, if they don’t have the same education, to be able to come to a country to get that education.
V- And a lot of people don’t even want to look at that.
W - And, and it’s very, very racist to say “none of these women had a freakin choice”; “these women are too stupid to make a decision, because they’re immigrants.” “So, thank God for big white men who are going to come in and save them, cuz they’ve all been trafficked”; because “there’s no fuckin way an immigrant woman could choose”.
V- You hit the nail right on the head. You hit the nail right on the head [nodding/smiling].
W - Why wouldn’t they want to work in the sweat shop? Why wouldn’t they want to work in the sewing factory? [sarcasm] There’s something, there’s something that EMPOWER says is, ah: “don’t talk to me about sweatshops; talk to me about sex workers’ rights”, and it[their graphic for this statement] has a big sewing machine on it. Thailand, and one of their ways of trying to reduce sex work, is to try and recruit more of them into sweatshops. And, they’re like: “we’re doing this because you guys don’t pay us enough” [laughs sarcastically].
V- Totally. And those are considered the, the respectable alternatives to sex work, right.
W- But we’d rather go after all these people for having a sex tourism place. Well, it’s not fuckin a sex tourism “paradise”; it’s a fucking workers exploitation “paradise” where Nike can go send their companies down their pay people, not even a dollar a day, to make their shoes. Nobody give a shit about that, but the fact that there might be a few people doing sex work…where CNN is at, and all of that…And then, we actually have more people who are under slavery-like conditions, because they are being exploited by American “legitimate” companies, than they are in sex work.
V- [nodding] Yeah, quote unquote “legitimate”.
W - Oh yeah, but sex work isn’t bringing any of the money into the American side, feeding money into corporate
V- So, what I am hearing what you are saying—correct me if I’m wrong—through your sex work and your activism, you’ve developed a very keen analysis of racism and capitalism. So, would you say that through those experiences that that helped you to develop that analysis?
W- Yup. Yeah, I think so. [nodding].
V- Because I think that that [keen analysis] often gets born out of that, Like, I feel like, when I’m in class and teachers are like “how come you get that stuff so easily? You know, when we’re talking about struggles for social justice and of how oppression operates, and I’m like: “yeah, I know”. That part of surviving, and gaining strength, and learning to be really proud of who I am, has been about really developing that analysis of how oppression operates, and of the hypocrisy. On the one hand we are so stigmatized as sex workers, and yet, we have so much power, because we fuck with…We are operating from this position and from this experience where everything comes tumbling down, right. If you, if you….The sex worker is marginalized, and we’re, like, so…Even though I didn’t do street sex work, there’s still all kinds of risks for violence, and criminalization, and discrimination. I certainly dealt with my share of discrimination; dealing with gossip—just feeling really alienated. But, I also felt a sense of power, because we’re who every woman is taught not be like, right.
W- Right [nodding].
V- But, when you are that, there’s this fear. There’s a fear attached to so many aspects of out work; that we use our sexuality as a mechanism for making our way through this world, uh, and that some of us are at a place where we don’t make fuckin apologies for the work that we do.
W- That we embrace it.
V- That we embrace it. And that’s very threatening to society.
W - Cuz we’re taking control from them. We’re bringing it back to ourselves and having ownership over it.
V- So, another good question is—and you don’t have to bite into this if you don’t want to—are there any pivotal people in your life, like, who were a part of the process through which you discovered your strengths about who you are as a person; about who you were in your sex work?
W -Valerie Scott, at one point, was an influence in my life. Um, it was great to finally have people who were, like, open about it, and who were cool about it; who thought that it [sex work] was a really cool thing, and that was awesome…. Wendy Leaver, because she’s a cop who really changed my viewpoint on cops, cause she had a different viewpoint on sex work than her other officers. She shared more caring and compassion than I’ve ever seen in any other law enforcement official, or anyone who hasn’t had a relative or themselves go through sex work.
V- You were resisting from a very young age [being cheeky]. Um, when I think of someone who was really…and I guess this breaks another stereotype, is—and not everybody gets to experience this, is that I had a really fuckin cool boss. We had our issues…I worked for her for most of my career, which was a little under six years, but I worked for her for most of that time. But, she was really, um, she had started working independently; she started working in her 30’s after she got divorced, and she started an escort service—not your stereotypical image. She did care for the people that worked for her, and we developed a very strong friendship. When your marginalized, it’s really important to develop opportunities where you feel solidarity with people.
W - Yeah, those were the only connections I had; with sex workers. And still, when I go to a strip club I feel at home. I feel…I get this weird feeling of belonging.
V- Yes! Yes! I think, and you get…that’s attached to a whole bunch of outside isolation, right. Like, we should be able to develop large networks of connections, but the reality is that that’s not the case, and I drew strength from my relationship with her. Like, to feel that I had an ally, and I knew [in her] somebody else who wasn’t ashamed of who she was, and who felt empowered in sex work, with all of its ups and downs. And it was kind of like, ok, if this is a person who I respect, and who I really feel like is a really good person inside…who’s smart and has a good head on her shoulders, then I can start to believe that those things aren’t incompatible in me. Like, I think it’s important to have those mentors, or those people to connect with who kinda affirm who you are. And, it’s like: “yeah, I am awesome; I am a strong woman; I do have something to say; and it’s ok to be proud of who I am, and to hold my head up high.” So, I would definitely say that the person that I worked for, up in the North, was someone who gave me strength and helped me to feel good about myself. Yeah….And, being a mother. For me, it’s like, you know, I probably wouldn’t have gotten into the sex trade if I hadn’t been single parenting. Yet, that’s still a source of power and pride for me….that I took care of business, and I continue to do my best to take care of my son. I wouldn’t change it for the world. You know, even though when I got out of the business, I wanted to get out of it for a while. I wanted to go back to school and stuff…It’s like, I’m really proud that I took matters into my own hands, and did what it took, and learned so much, and that I was able to provide for my son. And I think that I’m able to role model a different kind of….the way that I parent him and; the way I’m open about identity and sexuality, and the way he kind of sees the way I live in the world as a woman who’s passionate and who cares about that things that I do…I feel like it’s made me…it changes everything that I do—like what you were talking about; the whole way I relate to people. For me, some of my strength and pride has been around parenting. I guess we can’t talk about ourselves in compartments. Like, if I’m talking about myself as a sex worker, it’s affected how I’ve evolved as a parent. And if I talk about being a social worker, I can’t not talk about having been a sex worker. So, I guess that’s why I wanted to say that piece… Ummm, so you’ve talked about how, strength, for you, has affected your involvement in the community; like, in terms of our strengths and what you bring into your involvement in community work and community activism. Is there something else you want to add about that, or….?
W - It’s also about safer sex education, since I do do safer sex education. And I think I’ve always done safe sex education as a sex worker, cuz I’ve had to teach men how to use condoms; how to make condoms feel more natural by putting lube in the condoms. Or, you know, um, through seeing a coworker get gonorria in the eye, I learned not to let a guy cum on me anywhere [giggles].
V-Yeah! Good idea! [giggling]
W - I also learned the hard way—through coworkers again, and not through myself—that you can get Chlamydia in the mouth, which I now let other girls know because I still noticed that there are still no fuckin pamphlets that address that issue, so I had to make my own.
V- Yeah, [nodding] because they’re not geared enough to sex workers as well--not that other people can’t get it, but it’s a hazard of the trade. Yeah, so being a sex educator then—
W - And helping other men learn about it, you know. When we talk about condoms and they try to say “oh, I’m clean; don’t worry about it” , I’ll be like: “you don’t know about me; you don’t know about your girl friend, and did you know you can get it the first time you have sex?” I have the safe sex talk with them, which really helps me out, and it really helps their girlfriends’ out in the future [laughs]. They should thank me.
V- Fuckin right! And, just also, around sexuality…like, I think I became more knowledgeable around gender issues; like the fluidity of gender, and expressing your gender, ah, through role playing. I learned these things through client desires, and I learned about myself through the process; about where I am on the spectrum of sexuality in terms of my bisexuality. Like, I learned a lot about human sexuality and about embracing difference; like, embracing different expressions of desire….fetishes—whatever you want to label it. Um, playing with submission and domination and, um, being really good at blowjobs. Like, whatever it is; being in that space….we’re sex therapists in our own right.
W - Yeah [nodding].
V- Hmmm, lemme see….Is there anything else you want to talk about. Are you interested in the part around how you thing we can nurture the strengths of other women working in the sex trade?
W - Yeah, I think we should have more, um, sex worker friendly gatherings, like when we had the XXX forum by Stella in
V- Totally! [nodding]
W - And try to help them—you know, if they want to get into another field—um, how to be able to address those skills with a lack legitimate employment [experience]….how to put down what skills they have. Um, I’d like to see sex workers take more leadership roles. Often, the police often ask them for advice about, you know, drug dealers and other stuff in the community, and man, they need to get paid for that shit.
V- And we’re often treated, if we are included—I don’t know what you think—in a very token way.
W - Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, with less amount of pay and recognition, and whatnot.
V- Less actual power to be an equal at the table; like, the policy table, or whatever….You can give your testimony, but, I’m talking about actual…
W - Which, again, is a stereotype that sex workers are stupid. You know, you can’t say…you can’t have a forum…There was actually one in the 80’s [i.e. the November 1985 OPIRG
V- Good Girls, Bad Girls?
V- Yes! Like, really creating forums that are backed up with money, and resources, and supports, um, where sex workers have an actual place at the table.
W - Yeah [nodding], and if you’re going to have someone work with sex workers in social services, it should be somebody that has done sex work.
V- Yes! Thank you!
W - I mean that’s just ridiculous.
V- Yes, I don’t know about you, but there is nothing, um, more powerful than….You know, when we were talking about pivotal people in our life that really makes us feel affirmed in our strengths and who we are… There is nothing more powerful than, somebody in that position—and that’s why I’m so passionate about bringing my sex worker identity into my social work—is, there’s nothing more powerful than somebody in that position who’s a sex worker, who maybe needs some sort of support or intervention, and looks at you and you can say: “I was a sex worker too”, or, “I am a sex worker too”. There’s something—it’s like: “Oh, I have established this real respect for you, and you’re not afraid to say who you are, so, what does this mean about me, and what I can do, and how I can feel about myself?”…to have that representation, right? And I think that there’s a lot of people in these fields that have been in the [sex trade] business, but they’re not necessarily in the position where--
W - They can be open about it.
V- We need to create more spaces where people can really bring that to the table [openly]…and that knowledge and that identity, to create change—not just in sex workers lives. To speak from a marginalized places [i.e. ways of knowing], and to find a place… Actually, it’s not just finding a place; it’s to challenge people unpack their own shit, and to start supporting us in carving out spaces for us to have a place at the table….to influence changes, and to be paid, in, in meaningful work for our knowledge and for our skills. Totally. And I think the decriminalization piece is really important here. Like, how are we really going to carve out those spaces if, in many cases, there are legal implications to coming out, or people afraid of loosing their children? You know, I remember being constantly…I, I— when I was doing sex work, thank God I didn’t have Children’s Aid knocking at my door, but I knew lots of sex workers that did have that. There are so many risks to outing yourself, right. When you talked about the importance of leadership roles, and there’s so many barriers to that. On top of that, because of the illegal, stigmatized, criminalized status of sex work, it’s hard to be willing to take risks unless other people are taking some risks….being allies. Yeah. Sorry, I went on a rant.
W - Oh no! Go ahead.
V- Do you have any thoughts about that?
W - With decrim, at the bare fuckin minimum, we need to do it to reduce the violence…that’s the bare minimum of why we need to decriminalize sex work. Right now we have more fuckin women in jail for selling sex, than we have men that rape, mutilate, kill women. And the fact that—and the police have even said it themselves—women are afraid to report to them [i.e. abuses/violence] cuz they’re afraid they’ll be arrested. That’s the main reason why they don’t report [violent] crimes. Any crime—to me—any crime that prevents a women from reporting a rape, is a crime that needs to be removed. It’s completely immoral that women are being arrested for this, and this law benefits predators the most out of everyone. And that’s supposed to be morally justified how?
V- Totally! Totally! I know! Even when you’re talking about something as simple as…We started talking about how do you nurture and honor the strengths, but how can we even begin to nurture and honor those things if the actual right to live…if the right to safety and well being is still something that eludes us? That’s an ongoing daily issue that sex workers have to contend with. We’re talking about providing a space for safety and well-being, and how can we begin to create these spaces unless we establish basic safety?
W - Yeah, that’s the bare minimum, cause you can’t get your rights without your life?
V- Totally!
W - Bare minimum is police protection.
V- And so much more. I know you’re struggling for so much more, and that’s why I respect the work that you do so much. It’s a piece of work that’s often missing from VAW work…violence against women work….it’s such a marginalized issue.
W - Yeah. Yeah [nodding]
V- Um, so who are our allies in all of this? Like when you think of, either, kind of, who are our current allies, and what makes them allies, and how can different people within and outside of institutions be doing their part in building alliances with us?
W - The same people that we assume sometimes are….We have a lot of legal experts on our side, because they see how stupid the laws are; how twisted they are. The gay community should be on our side, because it wasn’t too long ago—er, actually it is still illegal to have anal sex under age 18. You know, they have to fight for their right to have anal sex in the 70’s, and we’re fighting for our right to be paid; two totally different things—one’s a job and one’s a sexual preference—but it’s still a “moral” law. It’s still the fight against “morals”, cuz it’s morals that said that homosexuality wasn’t right, and it’s morals that’s saying that sex work isn’t right. And, we’ve gotta say “if morals aren’t right for one, they’re not right for the other.”
V- To recognize our common struggles, about, about the moral regulation of prostitution and how that connects with homophobia and transphobia. There are lots of queers working in the sex trade too.
W - Oh yeah, trans 
are highly represented in the sex trade, and that, again, represents discrimination, because it’s very few employment opportunities for them. The sex trade is one of the few options available to them, and to take that option away from somebody….
V- To criminalize the very thing that people find as viable options for themselves, and actually find some pride in their identity for themselves when given a chance. So, that’s a whole other piece about what we need to nurture then, because when I think about trans women, those are women. You know, we talking about nurturing the strengths of women. When I think of the connections with the queer community, and queer rights agendas really needing to intersect with sex workers rights, and vice versa. I’ve also seen some sex workers’ rights initiatives not make the connection with the queer community too. Like, not recognizing the male presence in sex industry, and trans representation, and, yeah.
W - And, [the] pro choice [movement] should definitely support us; should definitely be pro sex work.
V- Like, a lot of pockets of the feminist movement?
W - Cause again, a moral law that tries to dictate women’s bodies and what they can and cannot do with it, they gotta jump for it, and they gotta recognize that women gotta have a choice over it. And they gotta jump for them…if they want to use it for economy, or whatnot. I mean, come on, you’re pro choice; get on board! Um, VAW movements definitely need to get on board, because it’s already been proven that sex workers face more violence than any other population of women. Again, you can’t create equality unless you start with the most marginalized women.
V- Totally [nodding]!
W - Ignoring that violence is perpetuating that violence, and it makes you no better than the people you are fuckin speaking out against. Ummm, what other groups need to join in the movement….?
V- I just wanted to see if you wanted to bite into this…Like, universities and academics….I just think that so much ignorance—not just in social work programs—but across all disciplines…Like, we have these allies….I’ve seen this in looking at the research and stuff, that there’s some really promising stuff coming out, um, that’s been really sex worker centered and that really teases out the issues, but I still think that….Psychology has been really oppressive to sex workers.
W - Oh Yeah [nodding].
V- I think there are all kinds of spaces for really important advocacy, and challenging stereotypes, and working towards research about safety and well-being, but I think that so much more that needs to be done in these institutions. Is there anything that resonate with you about that?
Another season, another line up of fake “reality” shows. The latest reality sham to hit the air is “A Shot of Love 2” with Tila Tequila, the MySpace chick who spent hours upon hours on the internet gathering the most “MySpace friends”, is taking another shot at finding love on reality TV after “breaking up” with the winner of Shot of Love 1, Bobby Banhart. The reason why I quoted the words breaking up is because you can’t really break up with someone you’ve never dated. According to Bobby’s MySpace page, as soon as the cameras were gone, so was Tila – she didn’t even leave so much as her phone number for Bobby. But of course Tila, not wanting to lose any of her fan-base, concocted up a different story, saying on her MySpace page that her “hectic schedule was really hard on him and we both were getting frustrated, but at the same time... I just wanted to find someone who would understand what a crazy lifestyle I have so it's too bad that things didn't work out between us”. And with that, Tila announced that she will be choosing another partner out of 16 men and 16 women to spend her life with.
Of course, like most reality shows, the star is not in it for love. Apparently Tila has been with the same boyfriend for almost 2 years and she may not even be bisexual – which I don’t find hard to believe as in the first season she acted straight as an arrow. For instance, throughout the show Tila is constantly saying "I'm a bisexual," rather than "I'm bisexual." That's like Lance Bass saying, "I'm a gay." Plus she’s always turning to the camera’s and saying things like, "This show's the perfect experience because it's really going to help me figure out -- do I really like a guy or do I really like a girl?" Not only does this “do I really like a guy or girl” contradict her previous statement of being bisexual (as being bisexual means you ALREADY KNOW you like both sexes), but it’s also as if she’s forgotten what the premise of her show is; it isn’t to determine whether or not she’s bisexual or straight, it’s to find a partner! Also, if Tila Tequila was this big Myspace celebrity, wouldn’t she, at some point, have hooked up with a girl while trolling the web for sex?
Of course, whether it’s fake or not, I know I’ll end up watching season 2 obsessively.
Monogamy is defined by Merriam-Webster’s dictionary as “the practice of marrying only once during a lifetime, or the state or custom of being married to one person at a time or, the condition or practice of having a single mate during a period of time,” while the definition for ‘promiscuous’ is being “not restricted to one sexual partner”.
When it comes to monogamy and promiscuity, it is often said that women prefer to be monogamous, while men prefer to be promiscuous.
In the largest study done on human sexual behaviours, known as the International Sexuality Description Project led by David Schmitt, an evolutionary psychologist from Bradley University, researchers surveyed 16,288 people (mostly college students) from 52 countries found that men tended to seek sexual variety, while women tended to seek long-term monogamous relationships. In the study males and females women were asked how many partners they would like to have in the next month, while the average response from the males was 1.87, the average response from the females was 0.78. Males and females were also asked how many sexual partners they desired in the next ten years and while the males were found on average to want 5.95 partners, females were found to want about 2.17 partners in the next ten years. David Schmitt, suggests that men are born to be promiscuous and says that,"the results are strong and conclusive -- the sexes differ, and these differences appear to be universal." The reason for the differences between males and females, according to Schmitt, is found in ancient hunter-gatherer societies, when promiscuous males had a better chance of passing on their genes, and females who remained monogamous had a better chance of raising their children.
Some evolutionary psychologists have hailed Schmitt’s study as definitive, indisputable evidence that these sex differences are indeed biological. David M. Buss, an evolutionary psychologist at the
According to some feminist researchers, the responses in Schmitt’s study may have been skewed, suggesting that males may have exaggerated their responses to appear more “virile”, while females may have understated their responses so as not to appear “loose”, or like a “slut”. For instance, feminist researchers, Michelle Alexander and Terri Fisher, conducted a study into how females self-report their sexual behaviours and attitudes, and found that females change their responses depending on whether or not they believe they will be caught out not telling the truth. In another study, researcher Deborah Tolman interviewed high school girls and found that all the girls reported feelings of sexual desire but, that the girls expressed fear over the potential negative consequences of expressing these desires, which included losing respect and reputation, as well as limiting their educational opportunities.
Another reason why David Schmitt’s study may be skewed is due to “volunteer bias”, which means that many people, especially those that tend to be more sexually promiscuous and have sexual attitudes that are more liberal, probably did not participate.
Not only may the Schmitt study be skewed but, it also contradicts other evolutionary research which has found that females have historically been promiscuous. In one study on the evolution of sperm, scientists found that the reason why the testicles of males are the size they are is due to the historical infidelity of females. The study examined the semen of 12 different species of primates (including humans) and found that in the species where the female is promiscuous (such as the chimpanzee) her male counterparts have large testicles, but that in species where the female tends to stay with only one partner (such as gorillas) the male has small testicles. The researchers claim that the reason for this is that in promiscuous species the sperm must often fight those of a rival to be the one that ends up fertilizing the females’ egg, so as a way to increase the chances of paternity these male species have evolved large testicles and sperm counts for their body size. Since human males have rather large testicles and sperm count scientists concluded that females must have been historically promiscuous.
Female promiscuity has also been considered “good for the genes”. According to certain studies females who are promiscuous have a better chance of their offspring surviving because males that are successful in sperm competition also sire healthy offspring.
The idea of women being less promiscuous than men is considered, by some researchers, to be a “sexist double standard” which was socially constructed to permit, as well as encourage, men to be promiscuous by engaging in casual sex but did not allow the same for women. Therefore research that suggests that men and women have different sexual desires, and that men are more promiscuous then women should be reconsidered in regards to the social construction of female sexual identity, and also in how male and females respond to survey’s on their sexual desires and sexual activities, before coming to any conclusions as the findings may be due to the function of gender roles, and not due to any specific evolved adaptations.
There are generally two stances that feminist and women’s groups usually take when it comes to prostitution, the first is the total abolishment of prostitution through the full criminalization of prostitution and its related activities. This point of view is supported by REAL Women of Canada, who recommend that,
“Since the act of prostitution itself is not an offense under the Criminal Code, the latter should be amended to prohibit prostitution itself, as well as prohibit the activities surrounding prostitution; i.e. keeping a common bawdy house, living off the avails of prostitution, etc.” (REAL Women, 2002)
As well, Relais femmes, a feminist organization that rejects decriminalization, stated that,
“Introducing provisions that remove barriers to the trade in women’s bodies and legitimize the fact that men have unlimited access to the bodies of a certain number of women, thus creating two classes of female citizens: so-called respectable citizens and those dedicated to the sexual comfort of men.” (Kurtzman, 2005)
The second stance that feminists and women’s groups often take when it comes to the issue of prostitution is that“The principle behind the Swedish prostitution policies makes clear that prostitution is officially acknowledged as a form of male violence against women, a harmful practice and a serious threat to gender equality and a tangible expression of the belief that in one country, at least, women and children are not for sale”. (Raymond, 2004)
Sex worker rights organizations in Sweden have denounced these laws, saying that not only are they discriminatory against sex workers (ex. sex workers can risk being evicted from their homes if their landlords do not want to be seen as earning money from prostitution or operating a brothel), but have also pushed sex workers off the streets and into more isolated and dangerous surroundings.“Sex workers also report that the networks between sex workers that existed before on certain known streets for prostitution have disappeared or weakened as a result of the sex-purchase law. Earlier you could warn each other for dangerous customers, fake cars, etc. … The "normal" clients have almost disappeared from the streets. Those who remain are the ones with a twisted mindset and street prostitutes today are more exposed to robbery, assault and rape than before.” (
The result of the laws targeting adult prostitution is that we have more women in jail then men who have harmed them. To me, any law that prevents a woman from reporting rape or an assault is a law that needs to be removed. It is for this reason, among others, that I advocate for the complete decriminalization of the laws against adult prostitution, as well as support the Safe Haven Initiative. I believe that by allowing women to have complete choice over what they do with their body and sexuality, and by ensuring that all women have the freedom to report an assault against them to the police (without risk of facing prostitution-related charges), the Canadian will have made a huge leap in both advancing women’s rights and decreasing violence against marginalized women.
In what other culture is it politically correct to go out and get completely bombed as a tribute to another ethnicity? In no other culture would it be acceptable to sell t-shirts that say “drink till your [name of ethnicity]”, but t-shirts that say ‘Happy St. Patrick’s Day: Get shit-faced and blame it on the Irish’ and “I’m not Irish but, I’m drunk like the Irish” are perfectly acceptable and bear no interference from anti- defamation organizations or committees. Could you imagine if there we’re t-shirts displayed in a window that said, “Be Jewish save your money”, the public would be outraged! But for some reason the public stays quiet when it comes to the Irish. It’s as if equating Irish with drunkenness is supposed to be a positive thing.
I mean, how the hell do t-shirt companies get away with using racist stereotyping at a time when related attacks against other ethnic groups would be condemned outright as infringements on human rights? The answer is problematical, and speaks to the manner in which Irishness in
Many North Americans of Irish descent (like myself whose father and mother came from Ireland) have been cut off from their ethnicity and heritage through assimilation (a process of forcing Irish North Americans to overlook who they are and where they came from) and colonization, and as a result have forgotten/not learned of their roots and have, as a consequence, accepted images of drunken Irish buffoonery.
It wasn’t so long ago that it was acceptable to post signs around the
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